Silcher's page

Use this forum for HELP at Choral Public Domain Library as well as FEEDBACK
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Nikolaus Hold
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Silcher's page

Post by Nikolaus Hold »

Unlike Brahms, whose folk song settings sound like Brahms, Silcher songs always sound like folk songs. Sometimes it takes musicologists to decide whether a song is a popular Silcher composition or an arrangement by Silcher of a popular folk song. Therefore, it was convenient to group the secular choral settings under one heading.

The new guidelines probably now require a separation and the use of {{ArrangementsList}}. But it does not work!
Vöglein im Tannewald (Traditional), Muss i denn (Traditional) and Bitte an den Mond (Anonymous) are still under "Secular works", although one would not expect it after the indication "Traditional" or "Anonymous". Please do not ask me whether these indications are correct or not. I am not a musicologist and am only looking at this from a formal point of view.

The number of columns was set to 3, which looks pretty crazy on my phone, see attachment. I already pointed out the problem in a previous post and suggested not to use more than 2 columns (see "Multi-column page layout", 12 Oct 2020). But apparently others disagree.
Attachments
Screenshot_20211106-125109.png
choralia
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by choralia »

ChoralWiki is not designed for accessing from phones. The rendering for phones improves if you select the "Timeless" skin from your "Preferences" tab, however it's still a compromise as the website is not designed for small screens.

Max
Nikolaus Hold
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by Nikolaus Hold »

Recently I asked my daughter to order something for me on the Internet, since I no longer have a Paypal account and prefer not to have anything to do with such payment methods. When I wanted to accompany her to the PC, she waved me off and said she'd rather do it on her cell phone ...

After spending some time searching Google, I finally understood your answer with the "Timeless" skin. Attached the result on my Nokia 3.2, Android 11, Chrome 95.0.4638.74.
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Screenshot_20211106-170428.png
Claude_T
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by Claude_T »

What happens if you rotate your phone ('landscape' in lieu of 'portrait' screen)?
Also, phones are made to phone, tablets are better to look at web sites.
choralia
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by choralia »

On my Samsung smartphone the Timeless skin plus the rotation of the screen (sorry, I forgot to mention this - rather obvious - way of adapting the smartphone to a web interface intended for computer screens) works quite well:

Screenshot_max.png

Max
Nikolaus Hold
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by Nikolaus Hold »

Yes it's true, on choralia's smartphone you could read everything. (Now it says: The selected attachment does not exist anymore.) But it also clearly showed that many line breaks were needed per table entry and that 2 columns would have fit better.

Yes: "ChoralWiki is not designed for accessing from phones". But that doesn't mean you have to make the web pages as wide as possible.

I wonder if it could be recommended not to use the cols parameter at #SortWorks. Unfortunately, I can't find a description of how this function works. Apparently there are at least 3 cases:
> single column output for only a few works, see e.g. page "Johann Gottlieb Naumann",
> two-column output for a few more works, see e.g. page "Edward John Hopkins",
> three-column output for many works, see e.g. page "Johannes Eccard".

Maybe in the (distant) future the function could even be made to produce fewer columns when the screen is small.
choralia
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by choralia »

Nikolaus Hold wrote: 16 Nov 2021 16:59 Now it says: The selected attachment does not exist anymore
Fixed. There was a bug on the server configuration after these forums were migrated to a new server on September 8, 2021. Attachments shouldn't disappear any more from now on.
Nikolaus Hold wrote: 16 Nov 2021 16:59 Yes: "ChoralWiki is not designed for accessing from phones". But that doesn't mean you have to make the web pages as wide as possible.
Actually, the way pages are rendered mostly depends on the MediaWiki skin selected and on the browser used. It is usually quite interesting to display the browser page on a window (rather than on the full screen) using a desktop monitor, and change the window's width smaller or larger. Then you can realise what's the minimum width that is comfortable for a certain skin and window width. In my opinion, a three-column list remains pretty comfortable down to less than 800 pixel width even just using the standard Vector skin:

780_pixel_example.png

It is still acceptable, although less comfortable, down to about 640 pixel width:

650_pixel_example.png

If the Timeless skin is selected, the rendering at 620 pixel width remains quite acceptable and similar to the 800 pixel rendering with the Vector skin:

620_pixel_example.png

Currently, the smallest smartphone resolution recommended for website design is 360×640 pixel, so, if one makes use of the "portrait" orientation, the CPDL website behaves quite consistently with respect to the recommendation when the 3-column listing is used, especially if the Timeless skin is selected.

Nikolaus Hold wrote: 16 Nov 2021 16:59 I wonder if it could be recommended not to use the cols parameter at #SortWorks. Unfortunately, I can't find a description of how this function works
The SortWorks function is documented on this page:

https://www.cpdl.org/wiki/index.php/Hel ... oser_pages

Nikolaus Hold wrote: 16 Nov 2021 16:59 Maybe in the (distant) future the function could even be made to produce fewer columns when the screen is small.
This task should not be done by the SortWorks function, as the size of the window may be changed after the window is delivered by the server. For example, you can make a window larger or smaller without reloading the current page from the server. Adapting the layout to the window size is typically a task delegated to the browser. Within the function one can just try to detect whether the browser is a mobile browser and, in that case, apply alternative rules that may suppress any 3-columns output. However, I think that 3-column output is pretty acceptable in "portrait" mode and using the Timeless skin.

Max
Nikolaus Hold
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by Nikolaus Hold »

That's all correct, but I don't like the line breaks in the work titles ...

By the way, is there any way to work with the Timeless skin when I'm not logged in? As long as I don't want to upload or change something, I generally work unlogged, so I can't accidentally break something.
choralia
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by choralia »

Nikolaus Hold wrote: 20 Nov 2021 16:05 is there any way to work with the Timeless skin when I'm not logged in?
Yes, it is possible to attempt detecting whether a mobile browser is being used, based on the user agent string passed by the browser to the server. Then, the default skin may be set accordingly. This approach is not 100% reliable as the user agent string may be faked, or new user agents may be introduced and they cannot be recognised (at leasy initially), however it may work decently.

I've just added this feature, please let me know if it's OK. We currently have some 20 - 25% of traffic originated from mobile devices, so it's probably the right time to introduce it.

Max
Nikolaus Hold
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by Nikolaus Hold »

Feedback:

When I go to cpdl.org on my phone now, it does indeed use the Timeless skin.
In landscape mode everything looks ok.
When I open the main page in portrait mode, only a part of the page is visible at first, see Screenshot of 18:36:39. If I make the output smaller with 2 fingers, a strange gray rectangle appears. See Screenshot of 18:36:44. When I turn the phone to landscape mode it disappears, when I turn it back to portrait mode it reappears.
The other pages I have tested do not have this behavior.
Attachments
Screenshot_20211122-183639.png
Screenshot_20211122-183644.png
choralia
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Re: Silcher's page

Post by choralia »

As the entire website is not designed for mobile access, mobile skins try to adapt the layout somehow, however you have to expect quite a few rendering glitches on some pages.

I've just installed another skin, named Foreground, and activated it as a default for mobile access. It was another candidate skin for adoption on ChoralWiki. It seems to work better on the main page, while I'm not sure on other pages. You can select either Timeless or Foreground on your "Preferences" menu, and let us know which of them appears to work best.

Max
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